David Kelly - The Conspiracy Files - Part 2 of 2

David Kelly - The Conspiracy Files - Part 2 of 2 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6213898.stm David Kelly: The Conspiracy Files For many the sudden death of the government scientist and weapons inspector, Dr David Kelly, remains suspicious. BBC TWO: THE CONSPIRACY FILES Dr David Kelly David Kelly: The Conspiracy Files Sunday 25 February, 2007 Programme preview Kelly death not suicide, says MP Q&A: What really happened Timeline: David Kelly The official verdict was suicide. But a public inquest was never completed. The Conspiracy Files explores the questions that still surround Dr Kelly's death in July 2003, when the controversy about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was at its height. Doctors, lawyers, bloggers and politicians, question the official account; and the programme investigates what really happened when David Kelly walked up Harrowdown Hill. BBC DAVID KELLY: THE CONSPIRACY FILES Transcript Harrowdown Hill Oxfordshire. In July 2003, the body of Dr David Kelly – Britain’s leading weapons inspector, was found here. The tragic death of the man caught in the crossfire of a prolonged and bitter battle between the Government and the BBC over why Britain went to war in Iraq. The official account says that under pressure he took his own life by cutting his wrist. Thames Valley Police spokesman: There is no indication at this stage of any other party being involved But the method it’s said he used was so unusual that many people now doubt the official version John Scurr, Consultant Vascular Surgeon: The question really is does it seem reasonable that he could have died from this injury alone, and I don't think he could. The official version says he also took an overdose of pills. But is there another story? Rowena Thursby: They were intent on not only killing him but making it look like-like suicide. They didn't want to know-people to know that he was being murdered. Lord Hutton’s inquiry into David Kelly’s death had far less legal powers than an inquest. Dr Michael Powers QC: They didn't have to give evidence under oath. A witness lying to Lord Hutton could not be prosecuted for perjury Some say it could be more sinister than suicide. Richard Spertzel, UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq 1994-1998: David Kelly did not commit suicide. He was assassinated After a six month inquiry Lord Hutton concluded there was no evidence at all of any foul play. Press: There was no involvement by a third person in Dr Kelly’s death But could there have been a conspiracy by intelligence agencies to murder Dr David Kelly? Norman Baker MP: He told me it was a wet disposal which means killed in a hurry What led this man to a tragic death on this lonely hillside? Dr David Kelly was Britain’s leading expert on biological weapons, and a key UN Inspector in the hunt for Saddam Hussein’s Weapons of Mass Destruction. Richard Spertzel, UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq 1994-1998: Well there's no question that David was an extremely good inspector A hardworking dedicated honest servant to what he believed in. Doctor Kelly did not seek out the harsh light at the centre of the political stage. A private man, he found the Oxfordshire countryside a respite from his involvement in the tense build up to the controversial war in Iraq. The Government said that Iraq posed an imminent threat in a dossier of intelligence about the regime of Saddam Hussein. Tony Blair September 2002: He has existing and active plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons which could be activated within 45 minutes. The 45 minute claim changed the reputation of the Government, the BBC, and David Kelly forever. After Iraq was invaded, no Weapons of Mass Destruction were found. When the BBC reporter Andrew Gilligan reported that a secret source told him that the Government probably knew the 45 minute claim was wrong, the Government’s credibility was on the line. Journalist’s question to Tony Blair: Did you mislead parliament Prime Minister? The stakes got higher and higher as the Prime Ministers integrity was questioned around the world News reporter: British Prime Minister Tony Blair is facing a barrage of accusations that he exaggerated intelligence about deadly weapons.. Blair is being characterised as a political Pinocchio in cartoons. An influential magazine spells Blair: ‘Bliar.’. As Andrew Gilligan’s secret source, David Kelly had unwittingly become the key to the biggest and fiercest row ever between the Government and the BBC in which neither side would back down. Alastair Campbell, Prime Minister’s Official Spokesman 1997-2003: Until the BBC acknowledge that is a lie I will keep banging on that correspondence file will get thicker,and they’d better issue an apology pretty quick. A witch hunt for the whistleblower gripped the corridors of power for six weeks. Dr Kelly volunteered his name internally to the Ministry of Defence, hoping he’d be protected, but the government revealed details about his identity before finally confirming his name. He and his wife had just ten minutes notice to flee their home to escape a rat-pack of reporters hot on his tail. Alastair Hay, Professor of Toxicology Leeds University: This pressure was extraordinary I don’t know what point somebody has to reach before it becomes too much. The Inspector became the inspected. Andrew Mackinlay MP: This is the High Court of Parliament and I want you to tell the committee who you met. Three days after this questioning, Dr Kelly was found dead a few miles from his home in Oxfordshire, on Harrow down Hill. Thames Valley Police read out a statement from his family. Kelly Family Statement: Events over recent weeks have made David’s life intolerable and all of those involved should reflect long and hard on this fact. The end of David Kelly’s life was the beginning of a mystery. What really happened on Harrowdown Hill? Lord Hutton said the BBC was at fault in broadcasting unfounded allegations and Andrew Gilligan had admitted mistakes in his reporting. Lord Hutton concluded Dr Kelly killed himself. He found public exposure very stressful, feared he’d lose his job, felt unable to share his problems and was gripped by a profound sense of hopelessness. Lord Hutton: The major factor was a severe loss of self esteem resulting from his feeling that people had lost trust in him and from his dismay at being exposed to the media. Lord Hutton also gave the official account of how Dr Kelly died: by completely severing an artery in his wrist and taking an overdose of painkillers. Lord Hutton: Dr Kelly took his own life by cutting his left wrist, and that his death was hastened by taking co-proxamol tablets I’m further satisfied that there was no involvement by a third person in Dr Kelly’s death. So, officially it’s a suicide and the case is closed. But the Conspiracy Files series commissioned an opinion poll of a thousand people in Britain. The telephone poll found that almost one in four people questioned believed Dr Kelly did not commit suicide. So despite a two and a half million pound judicial inquiry. There remain many unanswered questions… and secrecy breeds conspiracy. A group of doctors and consultants have written a number of published letters saying that they don’t accept the cause of death given by Lord Hutton. Their letters have made them front page news, but have not drawn an official response from the Government. The letters by the doctors are co-ordinated by Rowena Thursby. She has set up a website called “The Kelly Investigation Group” to look into Dr Kelly’s death Rowena Thursby: People are very very interested in the death of Dr Kelly and they don't necessarily believe the official line which is that he took his own life. They find the whole thing rather suspicious and they write to me telling me that I'm doing, me that I'm doing very important work and that they that they are encouraging me to continue. David Kelly’s body was found by two volunteer searchers Paul Chapman and Louise Holmes with the help of their dog. They said they took care not to disturb the scene or get too close to the body, and contacted the Police as soon as they found him. Their description was of a body “slumped” or “sitting … up against a tree”. Rowena Thursby: The first two search volunteers who found the body clearly report-reported that his body was sitting up against a tree, The searchers told a police officer DC Graham Coe how to find the body, and he stayed alone with it for thirty minutes. DC Coe said he only observed the scene and never got close to the body and stayed about 7 or 8 feet away. Rowena Thursby: When the other people came along, the paramedics, the policemen, the detective, the forensic pathologist - all those people subsequently said that the body was flat on its back, not touching the tree at all. So completely horizontal on his back, so, which indicates to me, to anybody sensible, that the body was moved. But if the body was moved, who would have moved it and why? Rowena Thursby believes that DC Coe should have been questioned by Lord Hutton about what happened when he was alone with the body. Rowena Thursby: To find out why-what he-what he was doing for half an hour by the body, to question directly on whether he'd actually moved the body and put it to him that-that these witnesses say one thing and these witnesses say another. How do you explain that? You were with the body for the half an hour on your own, did you move the body? Lord Hutton says that such discrepancies in eye witness accounts are quite normal and do not disturb him. He saw photographs of the body that he believes are consistent with all the descriptions given. But discrepancies did trouble the Paramedics. Eleven months after Lord Hutton’s final report, they took the unprecedented step of calling a press conference. Dave Bartlett and Vanessa Hunt had attended dozens of suicide attempts in which someone has cut a wrist. But they found the scene of David Kelly’s death unusually free of bloodstains. Dave Bartlett: I suppose everyone was surprised at the outcome. Like I say we’re not medical experts, all we commented on was the amount of blood over the body. Vanessa Hunt: We can only say what we saw on that morning and there just didn’t appear to be a substantial amount of blood loss either onto the clothing or around the area. Rowena Thursby: The paramedics who attended the body they were very very shocked to find that there was very little blood around. In fact they they attend, they had attended attempted suicides and actual suicides, in about over a period of about 15 years and there was always masses and masses of blood all over the place So they didn't feel that he he could have died in that way. The Hutton Report had different witness accounts. Some saw more blood. The pathologist said there was a “significant volume of blood” and the forensic biologist, said that there was “a fair bit of blood” consistent with a severed artery, and some had soaked into the ground. Neither of them would speak to this programme to clarify exactly what they meant. One of the group of doctors and consultants who have published letters questioning the official cause of death is vascular surgeon John Scurr, a specialist in veins and arteries. John Scurr, Consultant Vascular Surgeon: I personally I don't think I've ever seen anybody die from wrist injuries. I have seen a lot of wrist injuries. It is a very common cry for help type thing. Attempt at suicide rather than a genuine attempt at killing themselves. John Scurr believes that if Dr Kelly had really meant to kill himself, he cut the wrong artery in the wrong way. John Scurr, Consultant Vascular Surgeon: Frankly I don't believe that simply cutting an ulnar artery will cause death. The radial artery runs down here and the ulnar artery runs down this side of the wrist. The ulnar artery is relatively deep and to get the ulnar artery you would need to cut in that sort of direction, which is an unusual way of holding a knife. The body has a lot of self defensive mechanisms. As you know if you take a knife and cut your finger you don't bleed to death. And the reason you don't bleed to death is you produce all sorts of clever things that seal the circulation and the bleeding stops. If you cut a large artery then you may not be able to stop the bleeding. The thing we know about the ulnar artery is it's quite small and so if Dr Kelly had cut it clean it would have gone into spasm and it would have, you know, probably oozed for a little while trickled. He might have lost a few hundred mills of blood. And then it would have stopped. Officially, David Kelly’s death was not only caused by haemorrhaging from a wrist wound. Lord Hutton says that an overdose of the painkiller co-proxamol probably also played a part. Packaging found with the body meant that up to twenty nine co-proxamol tablets were available to Dr Kelly. But the toxicologist who gave evidence to the Hutton Inquiry could not be definitive about how many tablets were taken. Tests he carried out suggested it was an overdose. That Dr Kelly had ten times more than a normal medical dose of co-proxamol. But he also said that Dr Kelly had less is usually fatal. Rowena Thursby : The forensic toxicologist to the Hutton Inquiry said that there was only a third of what’s normally a fatal amount in his blood. That’s an area which does need proper exploration by people who have expertise in toxicology and that could only be done at an inquest. One of Dr Kelly’s close friends, who is himself an eminent toxicologist was concerned about the way this evidence was dealt with by the Hutton Inquiry. Alastair Hay, Professor of Toxicology Leeds University: Well if I comment on the toxicology which is the assessment of the drugs that were present in David. I thought it was incredibly superficial very superficial. You need to know something about the behaviour of the drug, there are concerns about where you take the blood sample from. Concentrations vary at different sites of the body. And might there be changes in the blood levels after somebody dies with these drugs. These are all important factors that you need to know when you’re interpreting a blood level after somebody dies. And that inquiry didn't go ahead. It is not only the medical causes of Dr Kelly’s death that are disputed. People also question whether there was evidence that he intended to commit suicide. The Hutton Report says that Dr Kelly became suicidal because he felt humiliated and that his self esteem, his integrity and his job were threatened. To find out if Dr Kelly really reached that point you need to know who he was. David Kelly: Hello and welcome to the Defence and microbiology division… lead to the procurement of defensive equipment against biological warfare His job required a balance between the open world of briefing the media about the risks posed by germ warfare and the secret world of intelligence. Dr Kelly had the highest level of security clearance and briefed the Defence Intelligence Staff, MI6 and the CIA. Dr Kelly was involved in the preparation of the dossier that formed the basis of the Governments case for war against Iraq. After the war, when no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq, Dr Kelly talked to a number of journalists about the dossier, and came under suspicion of being Andrew Gilligan’s secret source. As rumours swirled around David Kelly volunteered his name to the MoD… BBC Ten O’Clock News George Alagiah: The ministry of defence has announced that one of its employees has volunteered he met the BBC reporter Andrew Gilligan in an unauthorised meeting. The Government held off naming Dr Kelly initially. But they revealed details of his identity which enabled the media to identify him. Something which has angered a former Deputy Chief of Defence Intelligence John Morrison, Deputy Chief of Defence Intelligence 1995 – 1999 : I think if they decided that they didn't want the name to come out, they could have protected him. They just left so many clues, that they all pointed to poor old Dr. Kelly. When the Government finally confirmed Dr Kelly’s name to the media, he was subjected to public scrutiny by a televised Parliamentary Committee. After two interviews by his employers and public exposure in the media, Dr Kelly had been under a lot of strain. But he spent many years doing a very difficult job in a hostile environment, making 37 visits to Iraq. Would someone like that really buckle and kill himself during a period of stress? Not according to one of his closest colleagues. Richard Spertzel, UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq 1994-1998: One of the reasons I didn’t accept the suicide story from the beginning is I would not consider David a person that would become suicidal. We all have depressions. There are some of us and David is included in those that would endure and find other ways out On the last day of his life, Dr Kelly was telling friends that he would continue with the job that was so important to him. He was replying to messages from friends and colleagues that he would soon be back in Baghdad. His daughter was due to get married in a couple of months Richard Spertzel, UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq 1994-1998: I would feel it most unlikely that he would want to essentially abandon his family and end his life prematurely. He certainly could have looked forward to many more years of happy life. But amongst the e-mails on that last day, there was one sinister message. It doesn’t appear to show that Dr Kelly was a threat to himself, but that he felt threatened by others. He told his friend, journalist Judith Miller that there were “many dark actors playing games”. When David Kelly’s body was found the Prime Minister had just arrived in Japan and faced some difficult moments. Journalist’s question to Tony Blair in Japan : Have you got blood on your hands Prime Minister? But he did say that Lord Hutton’s Inquiry would follow established legal procedures. Tony Blair in Japan: I think what is important now is that there is some due process and the reason for having an inquiry and I think people would have expected us to have one because of the tragedy that’s occurred is so that the facts can be established. But was the Hutton Inquiry fit for purpose? Dr Michael Powers QC is an expert in the law relating to inquests, and has sat as a coroner, he points out that the Hutton Inquiry had less legal powers than a Coroner has at an inquest Dr Michael Powers QC: In Lord Hutton's inquiry, they didn't have to give evidence under oath. And we all know, whatever one - one's view might be upon people giving evidence under oath, that if evidence is given under oath, it has to be truthful. If it can be shown not to be truthful, the persons giving out untruthful evidence can be prosecuted for perjury. A witness lying to Lord Hutton could not be prosecuted for perjury The law that allowed the Hutton Inquiry to replace the inquest has only been used on three other occasions, when it could prevent unnecessary repetition of inquests in cases of multiple deaths from the same cause. Dr Michael Powers QC: This procedure of adjourning for a public inquiry is really still with major disasters. People die multiple deaths in a train accident or boating accident of that kind. So far as I'm aware, this is the first and only time when it has been used to investigate the death of a single person. Lord Hutton’s report was strongly criticised but there was some praise too. At the time few questioned the report’s conclusion that David Kelly took his own life. Lord Hutton says he decided fairly on the basis of the evidence most of which he published. Liberal Democrat MP Norman Baker is renowned for asking difficult question of the Government. He has committed a whole year to investigating Dr Kelly’s death, which he believes was not properly examined by the Hutton Inquiry. Norman Baker MP: The Hutton Inquiry singularly failed to pursue any points of interest. As soon as anyone starts to say anything interesting the Hutton Inquiry moved onto something else. The Hutton Inquiry seemed to be there to shut down matters rather than to open them up. It's extraordinary that the, the rigour and the legal defence and legal protection for the Hutton Inquiry was less than a normal court inquiry, less than a normal. And yet this is what was set up by the Prime Minister. So that's very odd. Defenders of Lord Hutton’s inquiry say it was not impeded by the absence of statutory powers, as the huge public interest in the inquiry ensured that it had the full co-operation of all the witnesses needed. They also praise its detail and rigour. Would an inquest have been a better way to answer the questions about the death of David Kelly? The MP Norman Baker thinks so. He’s come to a school in Nottingham to talk to pupils about the way that Dr Kelly’s death was officially investigated. Norman Baker MP: People who meet violent deaths always have a proper inquest it’s extraordinary that there hasn’t been one on this occasion and we ought to have one some of the evidence would then come out properly An inquest was opened in Oxford, but the Lord Chancellor told the Oxfordshire Coroner to adjourn it as the Hutton Inquiry would take over. The coroner wrote to the Lord Chancellor of his concern at the Hutton inquiry’s lack of legal powers when compared to those of an inquest “as you will know, a coroner has power to compel the attendance of witnesses. There are no such powers attached to a Public Inquiry”. Just after that Mr Gardiner attended a private meeting at the Department of Constitutional Affairs. Norman Baker MP: So how did this happen? Why did he have that meeting with DCA officials and what happened in that meeting? The Lord Chancellor, Charles Falconer, accepted the Coroner’s need to have one further hearing but in an unusual intervention, he told the coroner to “keep the proceedings as short as possible and, so far as the Coroner’s Rules allow, take the evidence in writing”. The coroner did just that, and a death certificate was registered setting out the causes of death. Yet the Hutton Inquiry had only just started taking evidence. Norman Baker wants the Government to explain this Norman Baker MP: What was the point of the Hutton inquiry if the death certificate already gave the reasons. Harriet Harman: Um well I think that that that it the Hutton Report obviously ranged much more widely that is one of the reasons why there wasn’t necessary for there to be a further inquest by the Oxfordshire coroner Three months after the Hutton Report, the Coroner Nicholas Gardiner formally considered whether to reopen the inquest. And on the 14 April, 2004--I On t, David Kelly’s widow accepted that he had taken his own life and did not want the inquest resumed, neither did the Lord Chancellor. The coroner had additional evidence from the Police, which he kept away from the public gaze. Dr Michael Powers QC: He had access to other information. The Thames Valley police report-- which, of course, we don't have access to--which, again, gave him support for his conclusion that there was no exceptional reason to resume the inquest. Now the difficulty, so far as the additional evidence is concerned, is that we don't know what it was. Thames Valley Police declined to assist this programme, but told us they “conducted a thorough investigation into the death of Dr Kelly and presented the evidence to Lord Hutton’s inquiry and to the Oxfordshire coroner”. The Lord Chancellor also declined to contribute to this programme. But said at the time he’d checked with the Kelly family that they preferred the Inquest to be adjourned. And he said he did so to avoid any unnecessary distress the duplication of proceedings might cause. The Hutton Inquiry took evidence from an official who said in a throw away remark, David Kelly had told him that if Iraq was invaded, he’d “probably be found dead in the woods”. Rowena Thursby thinks that the possibility of murder should at least be investigated further. Rowena Thursby: Who would've wanted to murder him at that time? Well, there is the possibility at least, that he was murdered by agents of a state. Whether that state was, well we don't know which state it was, but it, it could have been what's known as a hit. A professional assassination. The Government’s denies that UK intelligence services carry out assassinations. But Norman Baker believes that David Kelly was murdered. And he’s used a newspaper article to call for people who have any information to contact him. Norman Baker MP: A small number of people have come forward with something to tell. People who’ve either known David Kelly or been connected with the Government in some way an even smaller number of people who are in the inside connected with the security services or others who may know something of what happened. There’s one particular one which may well be the answer that has validity and that is the particular one that I’m pursuing at the moment. The Conspiracy Files has heard from a number of people who say that David Kelly could have been assassinated. Richard Spertzel was the USA’s most senior biological weapons inspector. He worked alongside Dr Kelly for many years in Iraq and believes the Iraqi regime may have pursued a vendetta against Dr Kelly. Richard Spertzel: I believed that David was probably a victim of Iraqi Intelligence Service because of long standing enmity of Iraq towards David. Dr Kelly was a very effective Inspector. In 1995 he uncovered a large amount of biological weapons agent and forced the Iraqi government to admit that they had a secret biological weapons programme. Kelly’s colleague Richard Spertzel discovered just how much the weapons inspectors had annoyed Saddam Hussein. Richard Spertzel: A number of us were on an Iraqi hit list. I was number three, and my understanding, David was only a couple behind that. And none of the people on that hit list were welcome in Iraq. Richard Spertzel: Immediately after David's death, a number of the other inspectors and I exchanged emails saying, 'Be careful.' He could have been murdered, assassinated, I mean to that extent I'm involved in my own conspiracy theory. In June 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, UN inspectors examined the mobile labs that were claimed as the “smoking gun” of the Iraqi weapons programme. Tony Blair at Evian G8 2003: We already have according to our experts, two mobile biological weapons facilities that were most certainly part, according to our intelligence, of a whole set of those facilities. We have a situation where I don’t think there is any doubt in anybody’s mind that Saddam Hussein accumulated these weapons. But an inspection team which included Dr Kelly later revealed that they were really devices to make hydrogen for balloons. Rowena Thursby believes this may have provided a motive. Rowena Thursby: He was dangerous to the cause at that time, of, of, of getting the country to war. And to, revealing that the, the country had been taken to war on false pretences. And he you know he spoke offline to the Observer in the same way that he'd spoken offline to Andrew Gilligan, so perhaps they they felt that he had to go Did anyone really believe that Dr Kelly ought to be silenced? Warren Reed was an officer in the Australian Secret Intelligence Service for ten years and thinks someone in Whitehall might have. Warren Reed, Australian Secret Intelligence Service 1976-1985: A key priority of some people in the political machine would have been to shut David Kelly up once and for all. John Scarlett the Chairman of the Joint Intelligence Committee- the Government’s main intelligence advisor - had said that David Kelly needed a “proper security style interview” Warren Reed was trained by MI6. He knows what a security style interview involves and believes that Dr Kelly would have felt threatened by it. Warren Reed, Australian Secret Intelligence Service 1976-1985: They would have known how to ask questions that would have perhaps needled Kelly in a certain sort of way. They were looking for pressure points that would intimidate him. If indeed something like this did occur I would imagine that a top British interrogator maybe from MI6 MI5 would have been brought in under cover perhaps something they picked out to do with say his personal life could have been sufficiently intimidatory to have brought on either the suicide or say a heart attack. Could Dr Kelly have had such an intimidating interrogation in a safe house? Norman Baker MP has found an interesting lead in the Southend Echo Norman Baker MP: This looks like the period after when he admitted to the MoD that he may have been responsible for the leak and he had spoken to Andrew Gilligan and before he then became a public figure so I’m guessing this is probably round about the 10th July or that sort of time and this is one part of the sequence which so far hasn’t been identified in the story of David Kelly. The Ministry of Defence told us that Dr Kelly was not taken to a safe house in Southend. He was interviewed twice at the Ministry by his line manager and the head of personnel, but they say they did not subject Dr Kelly to particular stress. A different explanation for Dr Kelly’s death comes from Barrister Michael Shrimpton. He has made his own investigation at Harrowdown Hill. Michael Shrimpton: Harrowdown Hill, I've visited the murder site, it's ideal. I'm known as a national security lawyer and it's known that I have links with the intelligence communities in the United Kingdom and in-throughout the western world. I was contacted within about twenty four hours by somebody working with David Kelly in the intelligence community and he said he'd been murdered and I wasn't particularly surprised at that and given the source I had no doubts whatsoever that he'd been murdered from that time. Michael Shrimpton believes he has found clues on Harrowdown Hill that others have missed. Michael Shrimpton: You could a hide a platoon or a company of men over the brow of that hill and you wouldn’t know if they kept quiet until you were right on top of them. As a place for an ambush it’s just frankly ideal. He was clearly assassinated to keep him quiet there was no other motive. Michael Shrimpton believes that the co-proxamol pain-killers found near the body were simply a cover used by assassins Michael Shrimpton: The plan is to leave coproxamol by the side of the body. So they’re trying to get co-proxamol into the stomach and they’re trying to shove co-proxamol down into poor David Kelly he dies on them too quickly. As they’re shoving the tablet down him, probably the first tablet, there’s vomit, and that’s the end then he dies. And that’s the end of tablets. Michael Shrimpton also believes that the cut wrist was really to hide the injection marks created by a different method of death, an injection of a fatal substance Michael Shrimpton: Succynol choline is still very much the favoured means of killing him because it is so easily disguised. The wrist slash is clearly in my view designed not just to create the impression of suicide but it’s a perfect means of disguising the puncture wounds. Michael Shrimpton says he knows that Dr Kelly was assassinated because of his extensive intelligence contacts. Michael Shrimpton: That is the red phone if that phone goes it could be anyone from the White House to President’s administration in Russia to the CIA to whoever. It’s not usual for me to pick up the phone and have Henry Kissinger on the other end but that has happened. He actually has that number but he doesn’t have that number. That gives me a direct line through to Vice President Dick Cheney’s Office. Michael Shrimpton is also a fan of espionage fiction from Frederick Forsyth to Tom Clancy Michael Shrimpton: He’s one of my favourite authors One of Tom Clancy’s books, The Teeth of the Tiger concerns an “off the books” team of US Government assassins who avoid detection by killing their victims with succynol choline Michael Shrimpton: Now yes there is a reference to Succynol Choline in this book and I think that follows the assassination of David Kelly. Tom Clancy has very good contacts in the intelligence community. It may be that Tom Clancy picked up a loopback from the Kelly assassination. But if the suggestion is that I got succynol choline from a Tom Clancy novel then sorry that won’t wash. Norman Baker’s investigation has led to him meeting a secret contact who has heard a sinister version of what happened to Dr Kelly. Norman Baker MP: He had been told by - a, a friend who was senior in the security services that this was a quote - wet disposal and what is wet disposal I asked him, wet disposal means that it was a hurried job and he was killed in a hurried way, that's apparently what wet disposal means But will Norman Baker’s interest in the security services mean that they take an interest in him? Norman Baker MP: There have been a number of odd instances. I've had e-mail traffic clearly interfered with and messages half erased. One of those was from a former member of MI6, who also had his post interfered with. Norman Baker MP: "Dear Mr Baker I'm not sure what is going on here. I wrote a full message to you. I confirm that I did receive your letter about four weeks after you posted it and it had been blatantly opened in the UK and forwarded in a Royal Mail forwarding envelope. The security services are usually more subtle when they intercept mail". When Norman Baker and Rowena Thursby meet they avoid talking anywhere they might be monitored. Rownena Thursby: Well, I, I tend to assume that I'm being, being bugged. I, I mean I don't know. But I imagine, the arms of government GCHQ they would probably need to keep an eye on um, who was doing what in connection with this case. They're bound to want to know what this group is about. And where we're taking it and whether it can be a further threat to the government. Norman Baker has come to Radio Oxford to publicise his personal inquiry into David Kelly’s death and has to confront the label of conspiracy theorist. BBC Radio Oxford: I’ve been talking to Norman Baker MP .Well the Hutton Inquiry found that Dr Kelly had committed suicide. But some have their doubts and conspiracy theories abound. So where to we go from here? Are you claiming that there are major dark forces and spooks operating out there? Norman Baker MP: Well I’m not using the phrase dark forces, I’m not using the word spooks nor am I by the way using the phrase conspiracy theory which is a very lazy way or journalists in national newspapers to dismiss anyone who questions the official version of events. A conspiracy is two or more people coming together for a common purpose no more no less. You might argue that George Bush and Tony Blair had a conspiracy to invade Iraq. BBC Radio Oxford: And what’s your best suggestion of an alternative explanation. Norman Baker MP: I’ve had leads to do with individuals who were connected with David Kelly and who had particular reasons to wish him not to be there. BBC Radio Oxford: Basil in Northmoor rang in on that one he says it seems a bit like the death of Princess Diana and it’ll never be solved and it makes him think there could indeed be major dark forces at work. Well if you want to get through to the programme it’s your time of day to get things off your chest. Dr Kelly’s friend Alastair Hay believes that it’s because of a lack of confidence in the Hutton Inquiry that questions are still raised about the death of his friend. Alastair Hay, Professor of Toxicology Leeds University: It's correct that these uncertainties are raised about things. And I think that this is a message for coroners in general. And it's a message for anybody who conducts an investigation like this. That you need to inquire you need to have some precision in terms of the information that is provided to the court. Because there are these uncertainties and unless these uncertainties are dealt with at the time then all sorts of speculation will occur. And it's perfectly reasonable for that speculation to occur Professor Peter Tyrer is a clinical psychiatrist and the editor of the British Journal of Psychiatry. He sees conspiracy theories as an inevitable consequence of political news management and spin Prof Peter Tyrer, Professor of Psychiatry Imperial College London: We've recently published a paper in the British Journal of Psychiatry that shows that the ordinary population doesn't trust the Government and institutions when they provide information erm a majority feel they are right to mistrust that at least in the first instance. I think this is really a consequence of the Governments excessive reliance on spin It’s difficult to be conclusive about the conspiracy theories which have grown up about Dr Kelly’s death. Thames Valley Police have never commented publicly on the theories. They say they “found no evidence of any third party involvement in Dr Kelly’s death.” And forensic evidence to the Hutton Inquiry showed no force or violence inflicted by another person. We spoke to a former deputy chief of defence intelligence. John Morrison has worked with MI5 and MI6. We asked him about Richard Spertzel’s theory. Richard Spertzel, UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq 1994-1998: I think David was probably a victim of the Iraqi intelligence service John Morrisson, Deputy Chief of Defence Intelligence 1995 - 1999: Let's use a little bit of common sense here. If Iraqi intelligence had wanted to get rid of David Kelly, where would they have done it? Iraq or the UK. He could have had an accident at any time in Iraq. Very hard to prove it wasn't an accident. Would they really track him down? Others have suggested that Dr Kelly might have been the victim of assassins much closer to home. Are there British agents licensed to kill? John Morrisson, Deputy Chief of Defence Intelligence 1995 - 1999: It is indeed complete fantasy that there are agents that are licensed to kill. There are intelligence agencies around the world who do engage in assassinations, there's no doubt about that. Some of them not very nice people at all. But we have never had a policy of assassination to my knowledge in the history of the UK intelligence agencies. And certainly not in the last few decades. John Morrison also rejects the use of the term wet disposal John Morrison, Deputy Chief of Defence Intelligence 1995 - 1999: Right. I, I've seen the words wet disposal used in fiction to cover assassinations. I've never heard them in my entire professional career except perhaps as a joke. John Morrison, Deputy Chief of Defence Intelligence 1995 - 1999: I can't conceive of anybody or organisation having any motive whatsoever, to kill Dr. Kelly. In a crime such as this you need, traditionally, motive, method, and opportunity. Since there's no motive, this is the rock on which all conspiracy theories founder. Some doctors have raised important medical questions about Dr Kelly’s death that remain unanswered. The Coroner, The Pathologist and the toxicologist to the Hutton Inquiry declined our invitation to speak to this programme. So what do other forensic experts make of those doubts? Dr Allen Anscombe is the President of the British Association in Forensic Medicine. A forensic pathologist with over 20 years experience, who has performed several thousand autopsies. We put to him the point made by vascular surgeon John Scurr Dr Allen Anscombe, President British Association in Forensic Medicine: I don’t believe that simply cutting an ulnar artery will cause death Dr Allen Anscombe, President British Association in Forensic Medicine: Forensic pathologists are biased in terms of seeing what people actually die from, clinicians by and large, the vast majority of their patients don't die. So again, we approach things from a different way and actually see what people really die from. You might argue we don't see what people survive. So I'm quite happy to accept that often severed small to medium sized arteries such as ulnar artery are not fatal, but severings of such an artery can and is occasionally fatal. And if you combine that with somebody who is deceased then you tend to put two and two together The Paramedics say they didn’t see much blood at the scene. Is there any way to establish if Dr Kelly had lost enough blood to have died from haemorrhaging? Dr Allen Anscombe, President British Association in Forensic Medicine: The actual volume of blood given that the person is deceased...um...is likely to be fatal, whatever that volume happens to be. There is not a simple volume which is always fatal and a simple volume which is not. It depends on the rate of bleeding, it depends on your physical condition whilst...before you're bleeding and whilst you're bleeding, depends on a number of factors It’s also suggested that up to five pints of blood need to be lost in order to cause death, and the pathologist who conducted the post– mortem on Dr Kelly in Oxford should have measured the amount of blood lost or the amount remaining. Dr Allen Anscombe, President British Association in Forensic Medicine: There's no simple test to measure the remaining amount of blood in the circulation in, in a dead body. It would be nice if it was possible but unfortunately it's not Sceptics suggest that co-proxamol couldn’t have been a factor in Dr Kelly’s death because the toxicologist to the Hutton inquiry said that the concentrations of co-proxamol found in Dr Kelly were less than is usually fatal. Rowena Thursby: There was a third of what’s usually a fatal amount in his blood Professor Alastair Hay believes the evidence of toxicologist at the Hutton Inquiry wasn’t as detailed as it could have been. Alastair Hay, Professor of Toxicology Leeds Universityy: I think it would have helped if he had said that if you look at deaths involving coproxamol that there is a range of concentrations that you will find in people. Ranging from about a quarter of the value that was found in David to in the case of the one drug propoxyphene, almost forty times as much as as in David. And so you've got that range and David would sit in that range but all be it at the lower end. But it would still give you a measure of reassurance that this sort of level is what you would find in people who have committed suicide. Professor Robert Forrest is Britain’s leading Forensic toxicologist and the president of the Forensic Science Society. He points out that Co- proxamol has been used in many suicides. Prof Robert Forrest, President The Forensic Science Society: At one stage it was accounting for about ten percent of the cases of fatal overdose that we saw. The numbers have dropped off dramatically in the last few years and this is because it has been decided that it will no longer be a licensed preparation available on prescription. The Hutton Inquiry’s toxicologist said that the concentrations of co- proxamol found in Dr Kelly’s blood were lower than the levels that are usually fatal Prof Robert Forrest, President The Forensic Science Society: The concentrations in Dr Kelly's blood are on the low side. We normally see higher concentrations than that in a person who has died of an overdose of Co-Proxamol. But if you've got heart disease - and if there is something else going on like blood loss, then all three of those are going to act together. The overdose of Co-Proxamol, the heart disease and the blood loss I've got no doubt that the - cause of Dr Kelly's death was a combination of blood loss, heart disease and overdose of Co-Proxamol. Not necessarily in that order. If I was going to put it in order I'd put the overdose of Co- Proxamol first. But it's important that all of them had interacted to lead to the death. The key to whether David Kelly was really suicidal was his state of mind. The Hutton Inquiry heard that David Kelly told a colleague he felt “thrown” when the committee asked him about another BBC reporter, Susan Watts. Richard Ottaway, Foreign Affairs Committee 2003: You have confirmed that you have spoken to Susan Watts. Can I take you through the quote again "The 45 minute point was a statement that was made and it got out of all proportion….. David Kelly had told the MoD that he’d met Susan Watts but hadn’t spoken to her about the 45 minute claim. He was told that if new evidence came to light which called into question his account, he might face disciplinary action. The committee twice read out what a source had told her. Richard Ottaway, Foreign Affairs Committee2003: Now there are many people who think that you are the source of that quote. What’s your reaction to that suggestion? I find it very difficult it doesn’t sound like my form of words, it doesn’t sound like a quote from me. You deny that those are your words. Do you deny you were the source of that? Yes David Kelly was the source and must have realised if there was a transcript there might well be a tape, and if there was a tape, that would prove he was the source and he would be exposed as dishonest. Prof Peter Tyrer, Professor of Psychiatry Imperial College London: He was a man who was a stickler for accuracy and it this comes over time and time again and he was also very concerned about being honest and I think he was concerned that this extra information which was tape recorded presumably without his knowledge might have implied that he was a liar and not to be trusted that must have been incredibly damaging for someone of his personality structure When Dr Kelly’s friend Alastair Hay saw him face tough questioning alone in front of the Foreign Affairs Committee, he was very concerned. Andrew Mackinlay MP: You’re under an obligation to reply Alastair Hay, Professor of Toxicology Leeds University: I'd never seen David in a situation where he didn't seem in control and I watched his face - I don't know there was just a look about it that worried me and his hands I was watching his hands too and the way he was holding them and clasping them. This was a very different David that I was seeing and so, um, that made me worried really. You just have to imagine how you would feel under those circumstances where everything that you had done your whole career which you are immensely proud of, and absolutely justifiably because it was a fan- an enormously brilliant record that he had, to think that this might all be in peril. The Government’s treatment of Dr Kelly has angered John Morrison. John Morrison, Deputy Chief of Defence Intelligence 1995 - 1999: Well, speaking personally, I think Dr. Kelly was treated abominably by number ten and my old ministry, the ministry of defence. I think they owed him a duty of care, they could have protected him. They did not only not protect him, they hung him out to dry. And I think that was despicable. On his last morning alive, Dr Kelly sent e-mails to friends saying he’d soon be back in Baghdad. Is that really the action of someone considering suicide? Professor Peter Tyrer has studied Dr Kelly’s emails Prof Peter Tyrer, Professor of Psychiatry Imperial College London: It looked as though the ones on the morning of the 17th were rather stereotyped whereas the earlier emails that he sent in July were much more informative and erm more sort of warmth coming through them and I think that there was a certain detachment of those emails on the morning of the 17th of July which made me think that he'd already decided that he was going to take his own life when he was writing those As well as sending e-mails David Kelly was receiving them. One was about an MP who had asked a parliamentary question about what disciplinary action the MoD was going to take against him. He took a knife he’d had since childhood on his last walk towards Harrowdown Hill Prof Peter Tyrer, Professor of Psychiatry Imperial College London: He was a person who liked to be in control and it was clear from the last few days of his life that he felt he was losing control. The uncertainty for someone who is highly meticulous the uncertainty of what might happen it’s almost worse than the certainty of something terrible happening. He didn’t actually know how it was going to pan out and I think that must have been extremely alarming for him. So I think it’s that combination that really led to the suicide. “He had a broken heart. He had shrunk into himself”. Mrs Kelly told the Hutton Inquiry. She hasn’t spoken to this programme but she told Rowena Thursby she has no doubts that her husband took his own life. Rowena Thursby: I spoke to Mrs Kelly on the phone. And, and she felt that her husband had in fact, committed suicide. But that, that was her strong belief. But you know, people can believe things very strongly but it doesn't mean to say that they're actually true. So I feel that we have to pursue we have to find out what happened to David Kelly. Norman Baker is also determined to continue and will not be deterred when he is labelled a conspiracy theorist. Norman Baker MP: I fully expected to be attacked in a careless and undefined way, which is what that is. But I think in politics if politics is to mean anything at all you have to do what you think is right. If you’re going to go through politics upsetting nobody achieving nothing playing safe and getting your MBE at the end or your seat in the house of lords what is the point of being in politics you’ve got to take some difficult decisions you’ve got to do what you think is right. David Kelly’s friends want him to be remembered for the enormous contribution he made with his career. Alastair Hay, Professor of Toxicology Leeds University: I would hope conspiracy theories don't get in the way of us remembering David. For me he was an outstanding scientist, he was somebody at the peak of his profession. I don't know of a biological warfare expert in the world who was better than David. So he's made the world a much safer place because he's told us what countries can do if they set their minds to it and what you need to do to protect yourself. So for me he was a good friend, he was an absolute professional, ah, and he was someone that we owe a great debt to, and that's how he should be remembered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_David_Kelly

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